| Author | Message | ||
| Glenn Williams (Glenn)
Registered Member Username: Glenn Post Number: 90 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 216.163.56.136 Rating: N/A |
I had planned to rebuild my shutters and pistons, and then at a rally several people said just to remove that system. One of them had spoken with an MCI rep. and he said they should go. Apparently they block about 50% of the airflow to the radiator even when open. I'd like to poll a larger group. What does everyone think? | ||
| William Sloan (Ole_timer)
Registered Member Username: Ole_timer Post Number: 9 Registered: 9-2006 Posted From: 71.82.100.232 Rating: N/A |
Hi Glenn I took mine off 20 years ago and have never had a problem on my 4104. The temp goes up to the themostat and holds. Ole Bill | ||
| Grant Thiessen (Busshawg)
Registered Member Username: Busshawg Post Number: 12 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 142.161.57.21 Rating: N/A |
I removed mine, haven't used the bus much since so I'm not sure how it will work. I suppose if you spend driving most of your miles in a cold climate it might be wise to keep them, but even Michigan isn't very cold. If we leave out of western Canada during Jan, I plan on just restricting the rads with some cardboard or something until we get into warmer climate. I don't believe the time and money is worth the repair job. Shutters are something even highway tractors have done away with, they to are running winter fronts now, same idea as my cardboard. Keep warm! | ||
| JC Alacoque (Jc_alacoque)
Registered Member Username: Jc_alacoque Post Number: 48 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 74.127.204.202 Rating: N/A |
The shutters on my Courier 96 have been left open permanently for several years now. It is OK in the summer, however in the fall at 5-10 deg (40-50 far), the engine runs about 160 farenheight from 180 normal. So you need something (either shutters or some kind of cover) for cold weather. | ||
| Mark R. Obtinario (Cowlitzcoach)
Registered Member Username: Cowlitzcoach Post Number: 175 Registered: 4-2001 Posted From: 204.245.228.212 Rating: N/A |
MCI's with side radiators have more of a problem of heat and not much problem with cold, particularly if the bus has an automatic transmission. I would not spend the time and $$$ on the shutters. If you do take the shutters and the related equipment out, make sure you don't leave any gaps between the radiators and the frames. For every square inch of open space you are going to lose more cooling capacity than you would believe. The blowers will suck air by the radiators easier than through the radiators. Mark O. Castle Rock, WA | ||
| Craig (Ceieio)
Registered Member Username: Ceieio Post Number: 308 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 207.101.213.58 Rating: N/A |
I still have the shutters and blower doors on my MC7. I had to work on the linkage to one of the blower doors once, but otherwise they are trouble free. I have to watch the left foot when climbing steep hills in the hot weather, but I think I would have to anyway. I have very little problem with the system and it does help keep the engine near the optimal operating temp. Two summers ago I was grinding up cabbage hill by Pendleton in the 100 degree August heat. I really had to watch it and was down to 30mph to keep the temp down. On that hill at 30, I still came up on late model trucks going slower than me though. That night, crossing the mountains heading south from Baker City, I heard the blower doors shut as things had gotten too cool (as they will at altitude at night. (I had a clunky linkage on one door, my sole repair as mentioned above.) I guess my point is that they work more often than you know; depends on where you plan to run the bus. I like to take mine into high desert country and believe the shutters etc. to be of benefit. Craig - MC7 Oregon | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 278 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 76.168.69.233 Rating: N/A |
Well, Here's another opinion. 1. The Uniform Mechanical Code, (Which governs us HVAC contractors) has a section which reads " the blocking effect of grilles and louvers must be considered." So, you will get more air thru the rad intakes if you completely remove the shutters. I do disagree with the 50% figure, however. Most of the MCIs with heating problems have the rubber grommet on the blower shaft worn out, allowing air to get around the radiator thru the blower shaft. 2. The reason the shutters are there is to improve fuel mileage when you don't need cooling. Fans take much less power when they are pulling "thin" air. 3. Pay close attention to Mark's 3rd paragraph. 4. I think Craig means his right foot? Wouldn't want to dance with him, HA! My 6 will run 17 miles on flat ground at about 65 degrees outside before the radiator fan comes on from a cold start. The fan will cycle on and off until the temp gets over 95, or we start uphill. So, IMNSHO, working shutters save money and power. George | ||
| Glenn Williams (Glenn)
Registered Member Username: Glenn Post Number: 91 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 216.163.56.136 Rating: N/A |
Thanks for the input everyone. When I got this bus, the engine had been swapped and the air engine control systems had been removed. I replaced almost everything from a 1973 MCI 7, except for the temperature valve in the radiator line because the pipe was different than the one I needed. So, I had thought about installing a manuall valve (I ended up with an extra from the generator air lines) to shut the shutters when I thought it would be necessary. Also, my radiator line does not have a bung to install a new valve. I would still need to tear the shuters apart since the linkage looks pretty crusty and install the shut-off valve. I think most of my use for the bus will be within the midwest. The bus also came with fiberglass scoops which I have yet to install. | ||
| Don Evans (Doninwa)
Registered Member Username: Doninwa Post Number: 85 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 66.45.165.58 Rating: N/A |
Craig, I have a GMC 4107. Do I have to learn to run the throttle with my left foot to drive a MCI? Must be a real trick if you have a manual tranny like me!  Sorry, just couldn't help myself. Don 4107 PS, I really like white too. Nice rig. | ||
| Glenn Williams (Glenn)
Registered Member Username: Glenn Post Number: 92 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 216.163.56.136 Rating: N/A |
I must have written my post at the same time as you George. I looked at my grommets, and they curve in toward the fan blades, but are only about 2 1/2" tp 3" wide. Is this correct, or are mine shot? There is a lot of room from the rubber to the drive shaft, if they are supposed to go that far. George, do you have additional electric fans? I am not sure how the squirel cages could come on and off. | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 280 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 76.168.69.233 Rating: N/A |
Glen, The rubber grommets should be tight against the blower shafts. See if they pull in with the engine running. Don't get tangled in the belt/blowers! I have an MC6, which has a different type of cooling system. My engine combustion air intakes are where your radiator air intakes are, and my one LARGE radiator is located low in the left rear like a 4905, with a hydraulic motor. Somebody threw out the shutters years ago, but I was able to repair the fan controls, so the fan only runs when it needs to. Now there's two of us picking on Craig, but we've got to have a little fun, right? George | ||
| Austin Scott Davis (Zimtok)
Registered Member Username: Zimtok Post Number: 187 Registered: 9-2006 Posted From: 216.37.73.226 Rating: N/A |
When I first got my bus the shutters didn't work. In colder weather the temp never cam up to above 120deg. And it would cool down when I was setting idle. I adapted an air cylinder to the shutters and now it comes right up to 180 and once there will maintain that temp unless I'm setting idle for a long time. I'm very glad my shutters are working... . | ||
| Glenn Williams (Glenn)
Registered Member Username: Glenn Post Number: 93 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 216.163.56.136 Rating: N/A |
George - Thanks for the descriptions of the grommets. It looks as if they may have been chewed down by the fan blades in years past. I have some extra conveyor belt rubber that I used to make a mudflap. I think I will go through the shutters and get them working again. I'll give Luke a call and see if I can get the radiator pipe valve. Might be better to have it than not. | ||
| Craig (Ceieio)
Registered Member Username: Ceieio Post Number: 309 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 206.212.230.165 Rating: N/A |
:-) Uh, let's see, uh, I, uh was facing the screen looking at your words so I assumed you were facing me so my right is your left so I said left... not buying it huh? Oh well it was worth a shot... How about this one... you need to run the throttle with your left foot so your right one can stay free to kick all the hot chicks away that go nuts for your MCI... (Now if you are picturing a bucket of KFC going down the stairwell you missed the idea here...) Craig - MC7 Oregon | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 524 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.97.117.44 Rating: N/A |
I had the same experience as Austin on my 4104. When I first got it the temp would never go over 150 no matter what. I discovered that the air to the shutter cyl was shut off because the valve leaked. I fixed that and since I turned it back on the engine runs at a perfect 180-195* no matter what the conditions. I would not like to do without the shutters. | ||
| Glenn Williams (Glenn)
Registered Member Username: Glenn Post Number: 94 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 216.163.56.136 Rating: N/A |
An update here - I found the shutterstat above the blowers in the radiator line coming from the resovoir, and the rest of the lines. I have connected the cylinders for the squirrel cages as well. So far, they do not seem to work. Should they be closed during any cold start-up? When these air cylinders had air lines attached and some open, there were no air leaks. I should pull the supply line to this system to check if air is going to it before the shutterstat. | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 525 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 63.97.117.19 Rating: N/A |
Glenn, On GMCs the shutters are open when there is no air pressure, I assume this is a safety feature. Once the air pressure builds up they will close until the engine reaches normal temp or slightly over, then they open. The shutterstat opens the air valve which feeds the cylinder and opens the shutters. | ||
| Craig (Ceieio)
Registered Member Username: Ceieio Post Number: 310 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 206.212.230.165 Rating: N/A |
Works the same way on my MC7 - Shutters and blower doors open when no air on startup; once air builds they shut until the engine warms. |